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From TheAtlasphere.com Interview Australia’s Prodos may be one of the world’s most widely-recognized Objectivists. A search for his name on Google reveals that his influence truly spans the globe.  The Atlasphere: How did you become interested in or aware of Ayn Rand? What attracted you to her ideas? Weren’t you a communist at one point? Prodos: Yes, I was a hardcore communist for many years. And I’m proud of it, because I went into communism for the right reasons. And I left it for the same reasons. Communism promised a rational, scientific solution to social issues. But of course, as I finally discovered after many years, it’s just a pile of dogma. The consequence of that personal struggle — that led me in and then out of communism — is that I have great patience with people who believe things that are different from me. Provided someone is honest and believes in ideas, facts, and reality, I can be friends with them. On the other hand, it also means that I have utter contempt for the modern anti-capitalist movement. But they’re not the idealists of old. The modern “leftie” is just nihilist trash. And you can quote me on that, buddy. Today’s terrorists, the Al Qaeda types, have more to do with modern Western nihilism than they have to do with Islam. Listen to my song “Act of War,” if you can stand it. (See AdventureAndRomance.com for more details.) To answer your question about Ayn Rand, a friend of mine, a venture capitalist named Neville Christie, introduced me to her. He now runs a professional mentoring company. Anyway, I had a punk rock synthesizer band at the time called PRODOSONICS and was moving it more and more towards theatre and getting across a sense of the heroic. Keeping the raw energy of punk but adding a dimension of positive fantasy. When he got acquainted with what I was trying to achieve with PRODOSONICS, Neville told me I needed “better concept management” and to read Ayn Rand, starting with The Fountainhead. So that’s what I did. I’m still friends with Neville. He came to my wedding last year — he told me I wasn’t supposed to take Ayn Rand that seriously! And, frankly, he’s appalled at what he now feels he helped create. Concept-manage that, mate! TA: When was this? When did this Damascene conversion take place? Prodos: Nineteen eighty-three.
I run a weekly discussion club here in Melbourne called “Discover Capitalism.” Last week, I phoned a fellow who was an outspoken advocate of free trade and individual rights — and whom I have admired for many years — to invite him to speak at one of our meetings. When I mentioned I was an Objectivist he went totally berserk — rambling and ranting against Ayn Rand. He had all sorts of horrible things to say about her, all of it utter nonsense. I was a little taken aback, but not that much. It just so happened that the week before, at a Discover Capitalism meeting, our topic had been “Those who freak out and looooove to hate Ayn Rand.” Our focus wasn’t on lefties, either. It was on pro-free trade and pro-individual rights supporters from “the right.” People who do good work! But when it comes to Ayn Rand, some of these otherwise-lovable individuals go all Manchurian Candidate! Nice people become crazed assassins, or bark like dogs. It’s very curious. TA: That leads to another question: Have you lost any friends as a result of switching from communism to Objectivism? Prodos: I’ll tell you what’s funny. In all the time I was a commie, no matter how hard I tried, I couldn’t make a single real friend out of these people. That’s because they were smarter than me: They knew I didn’t belong in their circle. They could sense it just by looking at me and the way I was. Me? I was oblivious; as thick as a brick. But really, how can a communist or a socialist have friends? They don’t even like themselves. How can they value someone else? They can’t. Sacrifice and collectivism not only lead to a miserable society, they lead to a miserable soul. Have you ever seen a happy altruist or collectivist? I haven’t. In my years of campaigning for capitalism and dealing with the hysterical outbursts and threats of violence from lefties, I can summarize the whole anti-capitalist movement in just three words: Thugs, bores, and buffoons. Not necessarily in that order. TA: Do you have a favorite Ayn Rand character? Prodos: Do you mean fictional character? Sure! Ragnar the pirate. And after that, Francisco. They’re my favorites. TA: What is it about each of those characters that appeals to you? Prodos: Their swashbuckling styles! With Ragnar, I love his outrageous courage and purity. For the sake of justice, he takes on the law enforcers of the world. He’s like a comic book super hero. Like the Phantom; like Batman. I wish Ayn Rand had written a separate novel centered on Ragnar’s adventures. As for Francisco, I love his passionate, flamboyant nature and sense of mischief. He always arrives swinging on chandeliers and dispatches his enemies with swift, skillful swordsmanship: Zing! Zing! Touche! Also, he’s the most romantic and sexy of all of Ayn Rand’s characters. TA: What’s your relationship with the Ayn Rand Institute? Prodos: I have interviewed more ARI speakers on my show than all other media in the world combined. I have many good friends who happen to be within ARI and happen to be connected with ARI. But I have never had any affiliation or arrangement with ARI. None. I’m taking the opportunity to emphasize this because many people seem to think otherwise. TA: Why internet radio? Prodos: As I often say on the show, Prodos.com is “The thinking person’s program — on the thinking person’s medium. How perfect!” My primary personal motivation with the show is not to save the world or even to spread good ideas. It’s to meet and think with fascinating individuals. And to challenge my own thinking. Although a lot of research and thinking goes into preparing for each interview, my rule is that every show must be a genuine intellectual adventure. It must also be a party. A series of insight and delights. Just like real life, right? My interviews are never edited. They go online as if live. I get to talk to the world’s most fascinating and honorable individuals, and I get to share that with good people all over the world! That’s what internet radio means to me. One of my goals is to train and get online one hundred new pro-Capitalism, pro-Reason internet radio presenters. That’s the aim of the Rational Voice Project. TA: Tell us some of the most memorable moments from doing your radio show. Prodos: I’ll tell you the most appalling interview I’ve ever had on my show. It was a sort of debate on China and what it needed to move forward. One of my guests was Dr. Andrew Bernstein, the well-known and greatly admired Objectivist philosopher. The other was a Chinese activist — online from Hong Kong — and a highly regarded critic of mainland China. Of course Dr. Bernstein proposed capitalism. But the Chinese activist argued for democratic socialism as the solution to China’s oppressive regime. What a joke. The two funniest interviews I’ve ever had were also debates. I acted as moderator or chairman. In that role I don’t take sides or inject my personal views, right? So, one of the debates was for and against the development of nuclear energy. It was fought between a pro-nuclear scientist and an anti-nuclear activist. The other debate was “Laissez-faire versus Keynesianism,” fought between an excellent Austrian School (pro laissez-faire) senior economist and a prominent Keynesian commentator. The debates were won by the anti-nuclear guy and the Keynesian! They decimated the fellows I was personally sympathetic to! Man, I still chuckle — and blush — when I think about it. TA: What are some of your favorite interviews from the show? Prodos: I enjoyed talking with Al Ruddy, the Academy Award-winning producer of The Godfather, when he was working on an Atlas Shrugged TV mini-series some time ago. Too bad that project fell through. But he was great fun.
A couple of years later I got married, to American novelist, actor, and artist, Sydney Kendall. So Betsy then wrote to me and asked whether I had now worked out “what all the fuss was about.” Hallelujah! I sure had! (Laughs) Objectivist philosopher Darryl Wright, talking with a Kantian professor and contrasting Kant’s philosophy with Ayn Rand’s, was a very interesting interview. It was especially marvelous to watch these two cool-headed, intelligent individuals debate and compare notes on deeply, fundamentally different philosophies. I got a lot out of that. Another similar contrasting of views that proved fascinating was when Michael Novak, a Christian, and Andrew Bernstein, an Objectivist and atheist, compared notes on capitalism. Dr. Novak’s view was that “Capitalism is the mind-centered system. It makes possible invention and discovery.” Dr. Bernstein’s view was that “Objectivism is the most profoundly spiritual philosophy in the history of mankind.” Did I mention “intellectual adventure” earlier? Well, there’s a perfect setting. How can you not find such a debate compelling? TA: You’re not an anarcho-capitalist and you don’t call yourself a libertarian. I wonder, do you vote in Australian elections? Prodos: Not only do I vote, but I’ve also recently joined the Liberal Party, which is our conservative Republican-type political party here in Australia. I voted for Liberal Party leader John Howard, because he’s an honest man, he’s more supportive of free enterprise and private property rights than anyone else available, he won’t sign the Kyoto Protocol, and because he’s a strong supporter of the USA and stands by Mr. Bush (whom I like very much by the way) and the War against Terrorism. I’m not sure why you mentioned “anarcho-capitalist” and “libertarian” in this context. It’s true I don’t consider myself either of these, although Focus, a German magazine that interviewed me, billed me as an anarcho-capitalist. I don’t know where they got that from. Very creative. But incorrect. Politically, I’m a classical liberal. But I have many friends who are “anarcho-capitalists” and “libertarians” (whatever that means). TA: At least in Australia, it seems, the term “liberal” is used where it belongs. In America, the term is used to describe what the Europeans would call a “democratic socialist.” Prodos: The Left does with words and language what it does with people’s lives and properties: It takes, confiscates, hijacks, perverts, twists, destroys. It has no creative power, and no sense of honesty or honor. In Australia, the Liberal Party was founded by Sir Robert Menzies in 1944 — prior to the Left taking over the term “liberal.” So it’s retained some of the older meaning to some extent. However, the Liberal Party was more or less formed by a joining of the Free Trade Party and the Protectionist Party. That’s what these parties were actually called! Australia had a Free Trade Party. And in 1904, for less than eleven months, the leader of the FTP was Prime Minister of Australia. It’s a very interesting story. I’ll be doing a special about it in a couple of weeks’ time on Prodos.com. But what does it tell me about a person when he says to me he’s a “Christian” or an “Objectivist” or a “Libertarian” or whatever? Not much. It’s not essential information. I choose on character — not category. There are Objectivists whom I dislike and there are Christians and anarcho-capitalists whom I love and would trust with my life. Last night, a good and greatly-valued friend of mine, an Objectivist, phoned me. During our chat he said he believed that anyone who believed in God was fundamentally dishonest. Now that’s a view I think is completely, utterly mistaken. Wrong, wrong, wrong! TA: Do you really make your living as a busker? How entrepreneurial! Have you ever had a “real” job? Prodos: Sure! Lots of them. I’ve worked as a street singer — busking in the streets — for many years. I’ve made much more money and many more friends doing that than any of my bands ever made. You’re right about it being entrepreneurial. At least in the way I do it, it is. I like to present it as a sort of mini street concert. I wear a top hat and tails, smile, and bow, and say nice things to the audience. And sing songs that make people happy! TA: What does America mean to you? Prodos: Cheerleaders! Show me how a culture treats its girls and I’ll tell you whether it’s based on dogma and brutality, or creativity and freedom. A few years ago I saw a photo of a proud-looking Palestinian father with his little daughter on his shoulders. She was wearing a pretend dynamite belt. This stupid man and his stupid culture glorify death, sacrifice, mutilation. For them a little girl’s body and life are for achieving the ideal of obliteration. But in the USA a girl can be a cheerleader. What other culture in the world would even dream of using femininity to increase productivity and maximize success? To help their team score more goals? To entertain the audiences? To add value by using their femininity, physical beauty, and athletic prowess, their sense of fun and humor, smiling, waving, filling the senses with color and cheek and daring their team to greater heights, and challenging their opponents to do their best against them? Cheerleading is distinctly American. Thomas Jefferson should be named as the “Father of Cheerleaders.” When the Declaration of Independence referred to “the pursuit of happiness,” it created a new phenomenon — what I call “constructive enthusiasm.” Americans don’t wait for permission. They don’t wait for happiness to come to them. They build it, they go out and get it. Each one for him- or herself. My song Poetry & Gold is dedicated to Dr. Andrew Bernstein and the American cheerleader. I could talk all day about why I love America and Americans. I’ve been to the USA twice now and stayed with friends in Los Angeles, New York, Florida, Virginia, and Cincinnati. My wife and I were in a KFC store on our way to visit Monticello last year, and this big guy with tattoos just came up to me and handed me a card to invite me to his church. I told him I’d love to come along because I knew that God loves atheists. And he agreed! (Laughs) People ask me whether America is highly religious. I saw a lot of “religion” in America. But it’s easy to misinterpret this. No, there isn’t that much religion. What there is a lot of, is Americans being Americans. In other words, people going out and creating or pursuing their dreams. When an American wants morality he doesn’t ask permission. He goes and joins a church and then becomes active promoting and working with it. Or he’ll go out and create his own friggin’ church! Or even a whole new religion or philosophy! Thomas Jefferson said he could! And every pom-pom that waves, and every girl in a short skirt who kicks up her sweet legs sings it to him: “Yay! Hooray! USA!” What would you do? TA: I’m not sure what you’re asking here… Prodos: What I mean is, as an American, you’ve got Thomas Jefferson coming at you from one direction, and pom-pom girls coming at you from the other, and they both have one message: “Pursue your dreams! Achieve your highest potential! Win! Win! Win! It’s yours! Get up, go out, and get it now!!” So, as an American, what would you do? It’s a rhetorical question. See? TA: How do you think Ayn Rand influenced your idea of America? Prodos: Ayn Rand was the first person since the Enlightenment to understand the essence of America, down to its core, and to articulate that understanding. Not only will she be remembered as the individual who began the rebirth of America, I believe we’ll find that her work will ultimately result in many more “Americas” being created. More Lands of Liberty! She is the new John Locke. The Aristotelian of the 20th Century whose ideas will lead the New Enlightenment of the 21st Century. TA: Do you think her influence on you has anything to do with the fact that she was an immigrant? Do you think her view of America is substantially different from that of someone born and raised in America? I wonder if you, a visitor to America, might offer some insight here. Prodos: What I can tell you is this: I am the world’s Number One pro-American non-American. The USA should pay me a million dollars a month to promote what America is really about — both to the world at large and to American citizens! But on second thought, I do it for free anyway! On my two trips across the USA so far (New York, Los Angeles, Virginia, Ohio, Florida), I made it my job to sell America to Americans. Consider this: The first time I stepped foot on American soil was at Los Angeles airport in December 2003. And the first thing I did was get down on my knees and kiss the ground. It was love at first step! It was prayer and delight!
In the Celebrate Capitalism campaign, there are only three flags that registered supporters are allowed to display around the world: The flag of their own country, the Sara Flag, and the USA flag. The American flag is permitted in all countries that run campaigns because America is not just a country: It’s an ideal! As a foreigner, an outsider, I can see what Americans can’t see about themselves! Show me an American, and I’ll show you a revolutionary! If you want to get a job done, give it to a Yank! What a person thinks about America tells me what he thinks about freedom. Just like those who knock Israel today tend to be anti-Semites, those who find excuses to knock America tend to be little anti-capitalist fascists. Tell an American your idea and he’ll listen and say: “Wow! Yeah! You can make millions out of that!” Ha! They’re all insane. That’s probably why I get along so well with them. At our last Discover Capitalism meeting here in Melbourne, we were studying Albert Einstein’s first impressions of America. His thinking on society and philosophy is highly flawed, but he was spot on about the USA: ...The second thing that strikes a visitor is the joyous, positive attitude to life...[the American]...is friendly, confident, optimistic, and — without envy. Interesting, isn’t it? TA: You’ve now visited America a few times. What’s the best thing about being in this country? Prodos: Americans, of course. I get along so well with them. White, black, brown, yellow? Americans! They’re my kind of people! TA: How did the idea for the original WalkForCapitalism come about? Prodos: WalkForCapitalism — now expanded into Celebrate Capitalism — came about because I wanted to create a new approach to activism, one that used the methods and attitudes of capitalism and capitalists. The methods of the creative, inventive, and productive. Let’s leave the knocking and negativity to the nihilists. We’ll present the positive, the constructive, the creative. We focus on what we are for. It’s called product differentiation. If you look at the methods of the anti-capitalist nihilist movement, you can also get an idea of the kind of future they offer. Somewhere between ugly and pathetic. On Ayn Rand’s birthday this year, Celebrate Capitalism launched its new campaign called “WE INVITE THE WORLD!” So far, one hundred fifty cities in forty-six countries have hosted Celebrate Capitalism events on International Capitalism Day (the first Sunday of June each year). The goal of WE INVITE THE WORLD is to have one thousand cities participating each year. TA: How did you begin working with Dr. Edward de Bono’s ideas? What would you recommend as a good starting point for someone interested in his methods? Prodos: By the way, Dr. de Bono — who invented the term “lateral thinking” — is not an Objectivist or in any way connected that I know to Ayn Rand or to the Celebrate Capitalism project. He’s been a guest on my show twice. A really lovely and charming man. Probably a genius. I started studying Edward de Bono’s “thinking tools” about thirty years ago. I am one of the world’s top coaches. In 1980 I set up the non-profit Prodos Thinking Club, which is now the longest-running de Bono method-based study group ever. By the way, one of the key people who helped to put Dr. de Bono’s work on the map is an Aussie, and a very good friend of mine, Dr. John Edwards, who used to be with James Cook University. De Bono has written over sixty books. To get started I would recommend I am Right — You are Wrong and de Bono’s Thinking Course. Another good one is Teach Your Child How to Think, which can be used by grown-ups, too. TA: What new technologies are you excited about? Prodos: Robotics, genetics, space technology, plastics and new materials, metallurgy, nano-technology. All you have to do is say the words “technology” or “science” and I’m already excited! I’m singing and dancing in the street! But of course, that’s what I do, isn’t it? TA: Would you and Dagny Taggart go to the same hairdresser? Prodos: Ha! You’re a funny guy. My needs are simple: stay hairy and render a swift, ruthless black death to all gray!
Prodos: International Capitalism Day (ICD) was changed from December to the First Sunday of June each year. I named this the “The DeJager Decision” in honor of Everett and Caroline DeJager, who in 2002, aged in their eighties, participated in the December Walk For Capitalism in Cincinnati — in record low temperatures — something like eighteen degrees Fahrenheit, I think. Man, that’s cold! It’s not only colder than any Aussie has ever experienced, it’s colder than any Aussie can ever imagine! Supporters from all over the world — which mostly means the Northern Hemisphere — had written to me pleading and trying to persuade me to change the date for ICD. What girlie-girls, I thought to myself! Have they no backbone? No commitment to The Cause? Are we going to let a little thing like winter (boo!) get in the way of saving the world? Gee, what’s wrong with people these days? But ... when, in December 2003, I was in Cincinnati handing out Celebrate Capitalism flyers and experienced my first ever Northern hemisphere winter, oh how quickly I changed my tune! Wearing only a t-shirt and leather jacket, in about ninety seconds my face was in pain. My head was going numb. I turned to the Cincinnati project leader, who was wearing gloves, scarves, beanies, coats, sweaters, etc., and smiling at me with her sweetest smile ... and what can I tell you? I had an epiphany. That was shortly after shouting at the top of my voice, “What the hell are we doing out here? I’m freezing my ass off! Whose crazy idea was this?” She smiled sweetly at me some more, then led me away into the warmth. TA: What’s next for Prodos? Prodos: More Prodos.com! More Celebrate Capitalism! A new magazine! A new online shopping service with a difference! I’ve been working for over two years to set up the new direction for the Celebrate Capitalism campaign. Shortly I’ll also be launching our brand new, fun-loving online magazine! Soon I hope to be re-launching my free online tutorials to teach the de Bono methods and study the work of history’s creative heroes. And coming soon — a new musical fairytale all about invention and liberty that my wife and I have created, and that we’re going to tour across Australia and the USA as a two-person show! Because now the Gypsy King of Capitalism has a Gypsy Queen! To adventure and romance across the Seven Seas! © Copyright 2004-7 by The Atlasphere LLC |
